Murray Smith

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Posts by Murray Smith

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  40

  Who converts and Why? SURVEY - Please contribute

  by Murray Smith in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've read some random articles of late and have found a recurring factor which could well be answered effectively by many of the posters here.

  basically the notion relates to what makes one vulnerable to indoctrination into a high-control religious cult and goes lke this .

  while most, if not all humans seek group approval and association to some degree .

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  Murray Smith

  Hey . . . a hearty thanks to you who have contributed thus far.

  I would emphasise this however . . . this thread is not about attributing blame . . . the absence of parenting factors have many reasons most of which cannot be fairly laid solely at the feet of parents.

  Additionally, there are other factors beyond the scope of parenting factors which also contribute heavily to the vulnerability to conversion.

  I believe however, that understanding fully just how these factors contribute can greatly assist in understanding the conversion process for the ultimate purpose of helping those adversly affected by this very dangerous cult.

  Please continue to offer your experience/opinion . . . personal details will be treated with utmost discretion outside of this discussion

  Thanks again.

  Luvonyall
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  8

  My sisters family

  by RevLeFrench in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found this site and thought i would let some people know of my experiences.. my sister is a baptised witness and had a bash at getting me to join.

  she thought it would help straighten me out and save me, (i had been a very naughty boy and had just been released for a very serious crime where i hurt some people).. i have always had an interest in theology and have always believed in a god, i just didnt like him that much because i blamed him for things that had gone wrong in my life.. the first meeting i want to was horrible.

  an elders wife ran up to me and was saying how lovely it was to see me there and i told her exactly what she could do in some very colourful language.

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  Murray Smith

  Rev . . . with the job you did on your sister (nice going), you've probably had more success than most of us here.

  I feel a void myself in that there is no specific approach that is known for it's good success rate. Individuals and circumstances make for a lot of variety . . . but if more information on the more successful approaches to take were available . . . I'd love to get on to it too . . the above refs (esp Hassan) make a good starting place
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  40

  Who converts and Why? SURVEY - Please contribute

  by Murray Smith in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've read some random articles of late and have found a recurring factor which could well be answered effectively by many of the posters here.

  basically the notion relates to what makes one vulnerable to indoctrination into a high-control religious cult and goes lke this .

  while most, if not all humans seek group approval and association to some degree .

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  Murray Smith

  I've read some random articles of late and have found a recurring factor which could well be answered effectively by many of the posters here

  Basically the notion relates to what makes one vulnerable to indoctrination into a high-control religious cult and goes lke this . . .

  While most, if not all humans seek group approval and association to some degree . . . those who fully convert to a high-control cult often show a similar common characteristic. It seems to be the product of an absence of parenting factors particularly during adolescent and post-adolescent development. This absence of parenting factors can be precipitated by a whole raft of individually diverse influences and come in various forms . . . but it's critical effect is that it slows the progress of young adult individuality.

  This slowing in turn extends the need for the presence of these parenting factors well out into young adult life. The young adult still feels unsure about his place in the world and feels most comfortable when those parenting factors (rules, regulations, absolutes, boundaries, authority, control etc) are present, thus making him/her subconsciously attracted to a high-control environment.

  In order to test this notion, I want to ask . . .

  Who among us can cite where a poor parental environment during adolescence, post adolescence may have had this effect? Simply put . . . what sort of relationship did you have with your parent(s) . . . was it close and open . . . or distant and interrupted . . . did you constantly feel the security of thier guiding hand or was this period confusing and lonely? Obviously this question is for the once-converted and may stir uncomfortable memories

  Nevertheless . . . hopefully the thread might show a commonality if it exists . . . so if you could attest to your experience as well as offer theories/opinions we might get an answer.

  Thanks for your contribution!

  Luvonyall
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  11

  Idiocy wins over rationale! I am mad as a hatter

  by cyberjesus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry i needed a place to vent.

  i am just flaming to see idiocy in action and how emotions, suppositions, assumptions and conclussions without evidence will not control someones head, and thoughts if you can call it that.. i am usually very patient (thanks to my fing jw background) and i try to use rationale all the time.

  but sometimes there is someone who would just refuse to think.

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  Murray Smith

  Yeah . . . bleedin unbelievable really . . . the "mind control" threads help with the 'why' but not the 'how'

  Heavily weighted implications attached to acceptance of even the most simple, obvious, and reasonable argument are a tremendous hurdle . . . the ol' "what will it mean for me if this IS right" scenario . . . great mind control technique.

  I believe however this same fear/guilt implication based approach can be used in the other direction also . . . working on it

  Gotta session with a brilliant psych counseler coming up soon (I'm crazy you see) . . . gonna run it by him
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  80

  What Doctrines or JW Views Did You Not Find Too Believable?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the thought that a loving creator would violently destroy anyone not belonging to the jehovah's witness religion including billions of babies seemed just not right.. the fact that you could recieve some "acceptable" blood components but could not donate those same lifesaving yourself seemed strange.

  you could recieve a blood fraction but you couldn't give it.. any others you can think of?

  ?.

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  Murray Smith

  I couldn't belive some angels came down to Earth for a shag. They materialized and grew bladdy wedding tackle for goodness sake!

  Why didn't Satan himself come for a quick 'ow's yer father'?

  Nah!

  punkofnice . . . my gut's is sore after that . . . you gotta way with words . . .

  Seriously though . . . . The "two witnesses" of Isaiah being fulfilled by Rutherford and his lackies . . . always thought what a lot of poppycock here!

  And the arrogance of applying prohecy to oneself personally . . . just really bummed me out big time
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  11

  Idiocy wins over rationale! I am mad as a hatter

  by cyberjesus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry i needed a place to vent.

  i am just flaming to see idiocy in action and how emotions, suppositions, assumptions and conclussions without evidence will not control someones head, and thoughts if you can call it that.. i am usually very patient (thanks to my fing jw background) and i try to use rationale all the time.

  but sometimes there is someone who would just refuse to think.

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  Murray Smith

  Sorted the head protection bit out already Villabolo . . . although I like your style . . . it's the gettin a hole in the bloody wall that's pulled me up short . . . for now.

  I am genuinely researching and assembling (even testing where possible) various ideas on this subject . . . will report back ASAP . . . but be patient . . . this is tough-end coal-face stuff . . . it needs time
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  11

  Idiocy wins over rationale! I am mad as a hatter

  by cyberjesus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry i needed a place to vent.

  i am just flaming to see idiocy in action and how emotions, suppositions, assumptions and conclussions without evidence will not control someones head, and thoughts if you can call it that.. i am usually very patient (thanks to my fing jw background) and i try to use rationale all the time.

  but sometimes there is someone who would just refuse to think.

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  Murray Smith

  Head (thinking one) . . . . banging . . . . brick wall = headache . . . . subject doesn't matter . . . head still hurts

  I ain't figured out how to bang my head against a brick wall successfully yet . . . but I've been working on it for 7 years . . . optimistically expecting a breakthrough soon . . . feel free to vent while waiting . . . and keep the hat on

  Luvonyall
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  27

  NZ Earthquake Update

  by Murray Smith in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  update from chch nz just in case anyone out there is interested .

  we're still gettin kicked up the ass down here by some punchy aftershocks .

  still coming at about 1 every 90 mins.

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  Murray Smith

  PM's sent
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  27

  NZ Earthquake Update

  by Murray Smith in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  update from chch nz just in case anyone out there is interested .

  we're still gettin kicked up the ass down here by some punchy aftershocks .

  still coming at about 1 every 90 mins.

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  Murray Smith

  Closely monitoring things TheJigsUp . . . a big noise get's us outside in under 3 secs . . . like you say, it's falling buildings that actually kill ya.

  Thanks for all your concern and support . . . it just aint something you like to be doing alone.
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  4

  BIGMOUTH . . . you got mail

  by Murray Smith in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  Murray Smith